Category: Syndicated

Yeah, I was a Dragonshield Matte guy, but recently tried out Katanas and must say they feel wonderful. I can’t say how long they hold up, but so far I am very happy with them. They are double the price, though, and well, the DS Mattes feel good, too.

Of course. Check the cedh decklist database – lots of those decks run an average cmc of below 2. Even if I grab my more casual lists – my Kykar Equipment+Vehicle list, running some bigger equipments and vehicles even, bigger creatures and stuff, is running an average CMC of 1.85 over all 100 cards and an average of still 2.9 if I only look at non-lands. It is a list with several 6+ drops, so that pushes the non-land average up a bit, but 2.9 is very high. My Muldrotha list, running demons and other fun stuff, averages at 1.58 including lands and 2.48 excluding lands. And both are quite casual decks. Yeah, they actually do work and have a punch, but they are far from cedh. But I would count both of them more in the battlecruiser category. Even my Locust God list that runs a bunch of dragons / sphinxes and big wheel and twister spells runs an average 1.89 with lands included and 2.89 without lands.

My worst offender is my Golos Turns deck with 2.3 average cmc including lands and 3.8 excluding lands and that list is decidedly bad and “unfair”, as Golos cheats on mana. The deck is centered around Golos cheating and around extra turns with having all the mana available again and again and multiple “untap all lands” effects to reuse golos ability. But yeah, kill golos and it turns into a durdlefest and doesn’t do anything – and that’s why I keep my lists lean and fast.

My cedh Kenrith list runs an average of 1.34 including lands and 1.93 excluding range. And it doesn’t even run Ad Nauseam. But it easily could. My budget cedh Ukkima list runs an average of 1.26 including lands, 1.22 excluding Ad Nauseam (as you will never see AdNaus when playing AdNaus) but still including lands, and even excluding lands it runs 1.89. So I am guaranteed to gain a ton from an early AdNaus when my life total is still up.

You want your average CMC low and you want a curve that maxes out in the 2s or 3s and not the 4s, because you want to play your spells and you want to play multiple spells. Most stuff you play is cheap stuff, the bombs are just that – bombs you play late. And it is not a question wether you “can do that”. You have to, if you actually want to really play before T4. Sure, if you are in a “lets ramp until T4 and then smash big dumb creatures into each other” meta, that’s totally fine and all power to you, but even then I would probably lean more towards close to CMC 2 including lands and having just a small section of my deck dedicated to those big dumb creatures and most of the deck dedicated to cheap draw, cheap interaction, cheap mana dorks and cheap mana rocks.

Last example: I have a Syr Konrad list. Base don Commander’s Quarters budget Syr Konrad. That list got a bit updated, but mostly replacing similar cmc cards, just for more expensive cards that deliver more oomph. It runs an average CMC of 1.84 including lands and 2.84 excluding lands. So yeah, it is more heavy than most of my lists, but still – average below 2 including lands is a good place to be, or at least around 2. And an average excluding lands below 3 makes sure that you actually can play stuff on curve.

I was talking about budgeting down. I don’t want to remove Mox Diamond, I just have to when I want to reach budget 😉

yep, but as others say, you run a whole ton of draw spells and selection spells, and you run a deck with an average cmc below 2 probably (I have seen some decks go up to 2.5, but those often run 30 lands and not 28 like the super sleek ones). And one thing people often ignore: if you add up the mana sources in a cedh deck, you probably end up somewhere around 45 up to 50. Because despite the super low land count, you will find all the efficient rocks and dorks and land enchantments and whatnot, that help you to give you the needed mana. I might even go as far as saying that many cedh decks run more mana sources than many casual decks.

If I budget down a cedh deck, if I take out a super efficient mana rock, I don’t throw in a bad rock or value spell, I thrown in a land at first – it is crucial to hit your mana. You can get away with low numbers of lands, if you bring in two mana sources (a land and some acceleration) every turn, because if you end up with 6 mana T3, you are probably much better suited than the casual deck that played a tapped worn powerstone at that turn. And some cedh lists have quite a bit more than just 6 mana T3.

BTW: that’s why Pyroclasm can be the worst thing happening to a cedh deck in the current meta, it wipes out the dork based mana. Of course a cedh deck not only has the fast mana, it also has the fast interaction, so don’t just assume slamming a T3 pyroclasm or Anger of the Gods will resolve 😉

I just assume that it is more the frustration as a developer talking in the case of Maro – he tries to address some design aspects, but the most popular format goes completely counter that design aspect. I can totally understand him – they built those cards to be treated as “either/or” and this silly community format just decides to treat them as “and”. I don’t think he fixates on some specific cards, it is probably just a general thing that rubs him wrong from his perspective on game design. I mean, the guy does for a living what Sheldon and gang do just for fun.

And I totally see his point – the hybrid cards and abilities are explicitely meant to be used in either one of the colors. It is what you do in mono-red goblins, playing Murderous Redcap without issues and without adding swamps. And I am totally not building a Grumgully goblin deck that would love to run Murderous Redcap instead of the rather lackluster Skuzzback Marauders as a goblin with persist 😉

well, that’s not just Maro, that is exactly what other formats to do to fill in missing pieces – if there is a hybrid card, you can easily run it in your mono color deck. It is just EDH that handles this part very differently and poses those problems.