Yeah, I was a Dragonshield Matte guy, but recently tried out Katanas and must say they feel wonderful. I can’t say how long they hold up, but so far I am very happy with them. They are double the price, though, and well, the DS Mattes feel good, too.
Urza+Polymorph, Heliod+Enlightened Tutor are two that I could see working. Having a reliable combo available can be quite powerful. It is interesting in that – at least if you go mono colors – it kinda is a slow doomsday pile for combo, so you need to …
I play Clock of Omens as a parity breaker for winter Orb and static Orb in my Jhoira since I switched her to a polymorph plan. Before Urza did. that job. With orbs you just want ways to tap them eot of the opponent before you and clock can be dang good…
Slobad. And it was slow. And it was bad. still, up to this day I love the little goblin. I even read the rather bad novels about him (well, ok, compared to some of the current novels they were practically high literature).
/u/bboomslang on Which deck is "more fun" (has more replayability, fits more varied tables – i.e. Magic Fests). Kenrith Commander Quarters style or Muldrotha Generic
„The core of my deck running Blue is drawing cards until I drown my enemies in value“ – just because Muldrotha has a different card advantage engine doesn‘t suddenly make all Muldrotha decks the same. It is a very versatile commander, because she is at…
Just repeating what others said: proxy. It is not fun to fight someone on the wallet level, as well as it is not fun stomping Someone on the wallet level. You could limit it a bit by saying any card owned by anyone in the group is fine for proxying, bu…
I like to go to 3q in Stax Decks that run orbs, because new lands come in untapped. Sure, you usually have ways to break parity, but one of the best ways to break parity on Stax is to just play a land more often. So my Lavinia list runs 31 despite her …
That is actually a neat budget bob I didn‘t know!
even there the discussion around it is rather low-key. It is mostly a pet project of Jim.
/u/bboomslang on I want to make a lock deck with big artifacts, and I would love your advice on the color combination to use
Lavinia Omen Pool would like to have a word with you: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/yZJ824J4Q0ykHel8bYEbuQ 😉 (it’s on the cEDH database) – with both Knowledge Pool and Omen Machine and hard locks with Lavinia, Drannith Magistrate and Threeferi, I thi…
Activating a planeswalker ability is an activated ability. It follows roughly this pattern: you pay the cost, then you put the activated ability on the stack, then other players get priority. The “cost” with planeswalker abilities are the manipulation of their loyalty. Paying costs is part of putting the ability on the stack, so you can’t respond to it.
As already pointed out, Domri’s Ambush is a sorcery, so it can only be cast any time the stack is empty and it is your turn. So Ambush can’t be cast in response to the ability on the stack.
If you had used an instant, you still could only respond to the ability on the stack. So a) you have to account for the higher loyalty due to the activation and b) even when you destroy the planeswalker, the ability still resolves, as it was already on the stack. Think of this scenario: a planeswalker activates it’s ultimate at exactly the loyalty that it costs to activate. The planeswalker goes to the graveyard, but the ability still resolves.
So yeah, you are dead, sorry to break it to you 😉
Yeah, I miss my Arcum, it was such a clean list and play style.
Agreed, it is often more situational, but those situations are tailored to green game plans (draw on creature cast for example) and can be damn good. But yeah, Sylvan library is just broken and a reason to play steal enchantment in blue to steal those 🙂
Sylvan library wants a word with you (and your wallet 😉 )
Of course. Check the cedh decklist database – lots of those decks run an average cmc of below 2. Even if I grab my more casual lists – my Kykar Equipment+Vehicle list, running some bigger equipments and vehicles even, bigger creatures and stuff, is running an average CMC of 1.85 over all 100 cards and an average of still 2.9 if I only look at non-lands. It is a list with several 6+ drops, so that pushes the non-land average up a bit, but 2.9 is very high. My Muldrotha list, running demons and other fun stuff, averages at 1.58 including lands and 2.48 excluding lands. And both are quite casual decks. Yeah, they actually do work and have a punch, but they are far from cedh. But I would count both of them more in the battlecruiser category. Even my Locust God list that runs a bunch of dragons / sphinxes and big wheel and twister spells runs an average 1.89 with lands included and 2.89 without lands.
My worst offender is my Golos Turns deck with 2.3 average cmc including lands and 3.8 excluding lands and that list is decidedly bad and “unfair”, as Golos cheats on mana. The deck is centered around Golos cheating and around extra turns with having all the mana available again and again and multiple “untap all lands” effects to reuse golos ability. But yeah, kill golos and it turns into a durdlefest and doesn’t do anything – and that’s why I keep my lists lean and fast.
My cedh Kenrith list runs an average of 1.34 including lands and 1.93 excluding range. And it doesn’t even run Ad Nauseam. But it easily could. My budget cedh Ukkima list runs an average of 1.26 including lands, 1.22 excluding Ad Nauseam (as you will never see AdNaus when playing AdNaus) but still including lands, and even excluding lands it runs 1.89. So I am guaranteed to gain a ton from an early AdNaus when my life total is still up.
You want your average CMC low and you want a curve that maxes out in the 2s or 3s and not the 4s, because you want to play your spells and you want to play multiple spells. Most stuff you play is cheap stuff, the bombs are just that – bombs you play late. And it is not a question wether you “can do that”. You have to, if you actually want to really play before T4. Sure, if you are in a “lets ramp until T4 and then smash big dumb creatures into each other” meta, that’s totally fine and all power to you, but even then I would probably lean more towards close to CMC 2 including lands and having just a small section of my deck dedicated to those big dumb creatures and most of the deck dedicated to cheap draw, cheap interaction, cheap mana dorks and cheap mana rocks.
Last example: I have a Syr Konrad list. Base don Commander’s Quarters budget Syr Konrad. That list got a bit updated, but mostly replacing similar cmc cards, just for more expensive cards that deliver more oomph. It runs an average CMC of 1.84 including lands and 2.84 excluding lands. So yeah, it is more heavy than most of my lists, but still – average below 2 including lands is a good place to be, or at least around 2. And an average excluding lands below 3 makes sure that you actually can play stuff on curve.
I was talking about budgeting down. I don’t want to remove Mox Diamond, I just have to when I want to reach budget 😉
Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, Portent, Sleight of Hand, Impulse are the one I go for first
I am not saying it will be as good, I am just saying not playing all the duals will hurt you less than in lower-color decks. If you run a TnT list with only shocks, you still have multiple ways to guarantee double X pips being playable – you can fetch a UB and UG shock to guarantee your double U for example. In an Izzet deck, if you need double U guaranteed, it gets hard – you only have 4 fetches that can get you there, because you have to fetch basics. The more colors there are, if you run a perfect fetch list (if you can pay for that, I guess you can pay for at least the cheap duals also, but that’s another discussion 😉 ), you have many targets for color fixing due to the multitude of shocks and basics.
So for example if you look at a Kenrith Evolution list, you will see all the duals, sure. But you will see something else: there are many colors (the side colors) that only are covered by duals, the corresponding shocks are not run. So you can in those lists easily replace the duals with shocks without much detriment. Yes, you lose a bit more life, but life is a resource and Kenrith Evolution usually doesn’t play Ad Nauseam, so you can feed that resource into your mana. Replacing the Volcanic Island in a Kenrith Evolution list with Steam Vents will cost you probably 2 life, but your mana spread stays the same. Even with TnT lists, you will see several color pairs where they only run duals, you can (unless your list runs Ad Naus) replace them with shocks, too.
On the other hand, many 3 color decks run all three duals and all three shocks already. Replacing the friendly pairs with their check lands can work, but can throw you back one turn if you are unlucky, but there is no replacement for the enemy paris. So in a jeskai list, you often need the Volcanic Island to have the same color spread, or you have to rely on other pairs, but there aren’t that many in a 3 color list.
Hope that makes it clearer what I meant with that sentence. The more colors the list is, the less duplicates of pairs are needed and replacing with shocks is easy, and in case of friend pairs replacement with check lands can work, too. The less colors, the more reliant you are on the available duals and the harder it gets to avoid duals.
yep, but as others say, you run a whole ton of draw spells and selection spells, and you run a deck with an average cmc below 2 probably (I have seen some decks go up to 2.5, but those often run 30 lands and not 28 like the super sleek ones). And one thing people often ignore: if you add up the mana sources in a cedh deck, you probably end up somewhere around 45 up to 50. Because despite the super low land count, you will find all the efficient rocks and dorks and land enchantments and whatnot, that help you to give you the needed mana. I might even go as far as saying that many cedh decks run more mana sources than many casual decks.
If I budget down a cedh deck, if I take out a super efficient mana rock, I don’t throw in a bad rock or value spell, I thrown in a land at first – it is crucial to hit your mana. You can get away with low numbers of lands, if you bring in two mana sources (a land and some acceleration) every turn, because if you end up with 6 mana T3, you are probably much better suited than the casual deck that played a tapped worn powerstone at that turn. And some cedh lists have quite a bit more than just 6 mana T3.
BTW: that’s why Pyroclasm can be the worst thing happening to a cedh deck in the current meta, it wipes out the dork based mana. Of course a cedh deck not only has the fast mana, it also has the fast interaction, so don’t just assume slamming a T3 pyroclasm or Anger of the Gods will resolve 😉
First, you run all the blue cantrips. Second, you run all the mana positive rocks and cheapest ramp pieces (even the land enchantments for G, all the dorks). You run all the fetch lands in your colors and the duals and shocks. You keep your curve avera…
It heavily depends on the colors of your commander. If you are in Izzet colors for example, there is only one fetchable dual that is not an OG dual – so if your list runs double blue or double red pips, it will be hard to guarantee those pips being available. So running counterspell and doublecast in one deck without OG duals might make you more susceptible to those cards stranding in hand due to missing double pips in the early game. It is easier in friendly pairs, as you have the cycle Prairie Stream is in – they can stand in on a budget to guarantee you two fetchable untapped duals in many situations.
The more colors, the more you can skimp on OG duals, as you usually don’t run that many double-color-pip cards, or can compensate by fetching two shocklands to guarantee the double blue for Mana Drain or Counterspell. Unless you run Ad Nauseam or Treasenous Ogre, in that case run as many non-pain lands as possible, because you need your life for those.
So for example in my Lavinia Knowledge Pool deck, I skipped the Tundra, because I run my copy in another deck. It’s not a problem, I can run Praerie Stream easily and in most games don’t notice the difference (the deck runs Back to Basics, so I usually have the requirements met by the time I fetch it).
In my Jhoira deck on the other hand, I either run a proxy Volcanic Island or switch it over from the other deck it is in when people complain, because that list wants two fetchable duals early on, as I want to be able to play both red and blue interaction in the same turn, for example (or play a blood moon and protect it with a counter spell, or play Back to Basics and protect it with Red Elemental Blast).
I just assume that it is more the frustration as a developer talking in the case of Maro – he tries to address some design aspects, but the most popular format goes completely counter that design aspect. I can totally understand him – they built those cards to be treated as “either/or” and this silly community format just decides to treat them as “and”. I don’t think he fixates on some specific cards, it is probably just a general thing that rubs him wrong from his perspective on game design. I mean, the guy does for a living what Sheldon and gang do just for fun.
And I totally see his point – the hybrid cards and abilities are explicitely meant to be used in either one of the colors. It is what you do in mono-red goblins, playing Murderous Redcap without issues and without adding swamps. And I am totally not building a Grumgully goblin deck that would love to run Murderous Redcap instead of the rather lackluster Skuzzback Marauders as a goblin with persist 😉
well, that’s not just Maro, that is exactly what other formats to do to fill in missing pieces – if there is a hybrid card, you can easily run it in your mono color deck. It is just EDH that handles this part very differently and poses those problems.
Yeah, Ringleader is another one of the pile openers, as is Sensation Gorger for example, even – at least when Conspicuous Snoop will be there – Dark-Dweller Oracle can be seen as one, as it allows to rip the snoop of the top and play it, and comboing o…
It will go into Grumgully as another pile opener – my deck revolves around goblin recruiter piles with game winning combos, so he fits straight in. Even his cmc is fine by me, as that way I can grab him with Fierce Empath.
Did the same myself – my Kykar is just a battery that provides stored mana and drivers for vehicles and in my case also equipment. It is fun to play and usually plays out quite fair and people like a more normal Kykar deck that leaves play options for …
I think we have a winner here, turning the double mill guy into kinda mill-voltron archetype, taking out one player at a time. Kinda fun. The swallower and traumatize are two nice payoffs for double-mill and traumatize is easy to recur and find in blue.
I just decided to try the led+ub+Wheel Combo in my Jhoira, because ever since we lost Paradox engine, she is looking for something solid. She synergies well with the combo, helping to get to your payoffs quicker. And she still can run the sweet blood m…
double sleeving with dragonshield inners and dragonshield mattes here. The dragonshield mattes are superior in shuffling over the Ultra Pro stuff. I was on KMC before, but I like the dragonshields actually better nowadays (after they came up with the m…