Here’s the latest iteration of my take on Yarok.

State of the deck:

Big shake up!

Aluren and Intruder Alarm are out. Flash/Hulk and Labman/Consultation are in.

Write-up rewrite in progress…

Broad Strokes

Apply stax to slow the table, then go infinite and win.

Yarok doubles up on punishing passives like Overburden and also accentuates parity breakers like Lotus Cobra and Amulet of Vigor . This forms a great backbone to support lines involving Root Maze or Orb of Dreams . Under such lines, all your lands effectively get doubled and we have ways to reconcile Overburden returning two lands to hand whenever a creature enters. Arboreal Grazer and Elvish Pioneer scale along with Overburden (with or without Yarok) to break parity along that line and add a tap clause for lands to further embellish Amulet of Vigor . Burgeoning helps maintain a faster pace than the table as well, given the unique texture of a ‘landless’ table.

With Yarok on the table Shrieking Drake + Cloud of Faeries yields infinite mana. With infinite mana, Shrieking Drake + Coiling Oracle or similar draws the deck and lets you win via Laboratory Maniac .

Hulk Lines:

• With Yarok (UU): Cloud of Faeries + Coiling Oracle + Shrieking Drake , etc
• Without Yarok (UUB + draw): Spellseeker + Laboratory Maniac : Demonic Consultation

Survival of the Fittest + Necromancy (GGG (strung) + 2B + Yarok):

• Use Survival to put Cloud of Faeries + Dream Stalker + Coiling Oracle in the yard, reanimate Faeries and Stalker with Necromancy . Dream Stalker bounces Necromancy . Repeat for infinite mana, then switch to Stalker + Oracle.

Incidental Value

The number of ‘incidental’ lines under Yarok that let you gain advantage is positively enormous. I’ll break those down soon… but they’re things like this:

Overburden + Amulet of Vigor + Arboreal Grazer

• Grazer enters and creates 4 triggers. Let the two Overburden triggers resolve to return two lands, then let the two Arboreal Grazer triggers resolve to put them back into play. Each land will trigger Amulet of Vigor twice, so you’ll get 4 mana for a single Grazer etb.

Risen Reef + Dance of Many

• Dance of Many enters triggering twice and creates two copies of Risen Reef . All three Reefs see two elementals enter and each trigger is doubled so you get a total of 12 Risen Reef triggers for your investment.

Lotus Cobra + Tatyova, Benthic Druid + Crop Rotation

• Cast Crop Rotation and grab a fetchland. Both Lotus Cobra and Tatyova, Benthic Druid double trigger for the fetch and the fetch target so your works out to 4 mana, 4 cards, and an untapped land at instant speed.

… on and on and on …

All these ‘combos’ are purely incidental, i.e., you’d never go looking for any of these card sequences, but they emerge along the way as you’re setting up the actual lines you want. All the extra cards and mana provide plenty of support to fight through opponent interaction, making it more likely for you to succeed where a more canonical, tighter-margined line would get otherwise disrupted.

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I’d be interested in feedback of all kinds. Questions, critiques, suggestions, all thoughts welcome!

This resource is intended to explain the ideas behind winconless decks, when to cut wincons and some of the most basic “winconless” approaches.

Context

First up, “Wincon” is short for “Win Condition”, but what counts as one?
The waters around this can be a little bit muddy. Some people say that the combo set up is the wincon, while some focus on the outlet.
In a deck like Breakfast Hulk; Hermit Druid, the Breakfast Combo, Laboratory Maniac, Hulk Death Trigger or even Ad Nauseam could all be described as “wincons” in different contexts.
When discussing “winconless”, it’s typically the piece that takes you from “comboing off” to “dead opponents” that is counted as a wincon. In Breakfast Hulk, that would be the Laboratory Maniac.

What?

There is a spectrum of how useful outside its role as a win condition a given spell is.
Near the bottom would be a card like Exsanguinate. Killing players in a non-infinite way is very difficult, and it doesn’t really have utility outside killing people. When you aren’t winning with it, Laboratory Maniac is a Gray Ogre, which is a card often used as the butt of jokes about bad cards.
Up from there would be a card like Grapeshot. Doesn’t do much, but in a pinch can remove a truly problematic permanent. Slightly better is something like Blue Sun’s Zenith, which is a mediocre card draw spell, or Walking Ballista, which has a moderately useful board presence.

Winconless decks seek to win using cards closest to the “useful spell” end of this spectrum.

One of the first decks to go “winconless” was Tasigur. Beast Within and Reality Shift are both passable removal spells, and when looped infinitely with Tasigur, they let you destroy all of someone’s permanents and exile their library.
Some Green-based decks like Selvala and Momir went for Eternal Witness loops, repeatedly casting some standalone spells to win.
We see it in lots of other decks as well, perhaps most famously in Scepter Thrasios, where the “Twister Loop” was used to recur some spell to kill.

Why?

It comes down to card quality. If you have infinite mana and access to your whole library, who cares if your win is pieced together from 5 cards? But when you are trying to play the game and avoid losing, wouldn’t you prefer if you didn’t draw Aetherflux Reservoir?

When?

The combos most friendly towards being made winconless are ones that involve infinite mana or draw, such as Scepter with an outlet in the CZ, Top + Future sight etc.
One of the most common culprits is Laboratory Maniac or Jace, Wielder of Mysteries in decks without Tainted Pact/Demonic Consultation. If you have to draw your entire deck to win with a card, chances are you can cobble together a win out of the cards you drew, rather than running a dedicated wincon. This, and other similar scenarios, are when to look for cutting wincons.
Not that all dedicated wincons should be cut, for example, storm decks can “manually” use Aetherflux Reservoir when not going infinite, or certain spells may allow you to win at instant speed, or through some disruption or hate piece. “Winconless” should be applied only to cards that do not enable wins that are otherwise unavailable.

Who?

Some examples of decks that commonly include unnecessary wincons, and could go winconless:
Laboratory Maniac or Jace, Wielder of Mysteries in Urza, Lord High Artificer

You are casting your whole deck for free. Look for Twister/Narsets Reversal loops, or Codex Shredder + scepter to mill.

Laboratory Maniac or Jace, Wielder of Mysteries in Chulane, Teller of Tales

Your various combos draw your deck, and typically have a way to start generating mana once you draw a given piece. You also have tons of ways of repeatedly using Eternal Witness, and often Finale of Devastation

A life loss spell in The Gitrog Monster

You make infinite mana and loop your whole deck. You can use Finale of Devastation, Assassin’s Trophy etc.

Storm Payoffs in Elsha/Kykar

These decks do Top+Future Sight style combos and draw the whole deck. It’s easy to net mana and go in to some loop

How?

There are lots of tools available to winconless decks, and many of them are both recent quite affordable (with a couple exceptions). They fall in to a few different categories:

Payloads:
These are spells that will actually win you the game if cast infinite under the right scenarios:

• Swan Song for infinite 2/2 birds (requires haste or the ability to survive a turn cycle)
• Assassin’s Trophy to destroy all of your opponent’s permanents
• Winds of Rebuke to mill your opponents infinitely
• Extract to exile your opponents libraries
• Praetors Grasp to exile your opponents libraries
• Finale of Devastation to kill with infinite mana and some creatures

Note that Winds of Rebuke and Assassin’s Trophy may not be suitable for Twister loops as Timetwister will reset your progress.

Loop Enablers
These are spells that let you leverage infinite access to your deck by recurring spells (through draw or something like Urza/The First Sliver)

Multi-Buyback spells such as:
Timetwister, Memory’s Journey, Echo of Eons. Any spell that lets you put more than one card from your graveyard back in to your library to draw again. These will put both Payloads and single buyback spells back in to your library

Single Buyback Spells such as:
Regrowth, Noxious Revival, Eternal Witness, Codex Shredder. These let you buy back your multi-buyback spell of loop enabler, and will in turn be bought back by them.

Other Enablers
Copy Artifact – Copying your Isochron Scepter with Dramatic Reversal and putting a payload under it
Narset’s Reversal – Either under Scepter or with Bonus Round, this spell lets you copy payload spells infinitely. It can also function as a single buyback spell by copying your multi buyback spell and returning it to your hand

The basic Twister Loop:
Requirements: Some way to infinitely cast spells that are in your library, either a combo of Infinite Mana + Draw, or infinite cascade, infinite urza activations or similar. Timetwister or an analogue, Regrowth or an analogue, Payload spell.
Steps:

1. Find your Payload spell
2. Cast your Payload spell
3. Find your Twister effect
4. Cast your Twister effect (shuffling in your Regrowth and Payload effects)
5. Find your Regrowth Effect
6. Cast your Regrowth Effect, returning Twister
7. Repeat

The basic dual scepter setup:
Requirements: Isochron Scepter + Dramatic Reversal making infinite mana. Access to your whole deck. Copy Artifact, Payload that can go under scepter (or payload that can’t + narset’s reversal).
Steps:

1. Cast Copy Artifact, copying Isochron Scepter, Imprinting Narset’s Reversal
2. Cast your Payload Spell.
3. Activate the Scepter with Narset’s Reversal, returning your Payload to your hand and copying it
4. Let the Copy Resolve
5. Activate the Scepter with Dramatic Reversal, untapping both Scepters
6. Repeat

If you have a payload that goes under scepter, you can skip steps 2 and 4, and modify step 3 to cast the payload off of scepter.

Downsides of going Winconless

• Winconless combos often require more cards, so there can be increased risk of losing access to something important.
• Most winconless lines are not shortcuttable, which means you will have to execute an obnoxious combo if somebody asks you to
• Winconless combos can be more difficult to execute

If you have any suggestions or questions, please feel free to comment, I will probably turn this in to a nicer formatted and updated doc someday.

Recently, in this subreddit and in other outlets, there’s been talk of a breaking away from the Rules Committee. r/CompetitiveEDH is, despite the long discussions in light of the recent bans, not going to endorse the discussed separate rulesets nor banlists.

As to why, it is time for a reminder:

The community here has, from the beginning, existed as a safe haven for people looking to explore the Commander format, as-is, to its extremes. Consequently, it also exists to explore what Commander can offer to ones with a mindset of (within the rules of the game) aiming to achieve victory as a primary objective.

The social contract of cEDH players is predicated first and foremost on the above: the mutual fun of the pod is emergent from the thrill of chasing that objective in both tight technical gameplay and ingenuity in deck construction. Secondly, it is built on upholding and adhering to the first and foremost of our rules: being excellent to each other. This community still exists today as the balance and harmony between these two philosophies.

We are not looking to create new formats or banlists. We are Commander players at heart, and what we’ve been aiming to achieve is not different than the many others that play at other power levels. We’re seeking to express ourselves through deckbuilding (with rigor and power as the driving entities rather than other goals) and create compelling, social gameplay that embodies how we enjoy Magic. The mindset and purpose of the current community was created with these gameplay- and socially-oriented goals in mind. The vastness of the card pool coupled with the dynamisms of multiplayer create an unexplored space in which the more curious deckbuilders, brewers and fine-tuners can (and eventually always will) explore. Commander in all its power levels provides players with nearly infinite possibilities in deckbuilding and self-expression; the possibilities for cEDH, while more finite, are vast and still have space for exploration. Even now. Especially now.

Remember, if the format was solved, none of us would be here asking questions, giving or taking criticism, writing posts or primers, and creating content pretty much every day with this very format in mind. We love Commander for what it is, and we will continue to keep playing the format that we set out to.

For every Magic format, be it a casual or a competitive one, there is the Timmy, there is the Johnny, and there is the Spike. And even if a new format were to split into a separate banlist, this community is and will be that Spike that plays Commander.

-The Competitive EDH Mod Team

I hope you enjoyed Modern Horizons; we got some excellent upgrades.

Here are some of my general notes and my updates to my paper decks.

—–

Force of Negation: Very nice. Not for every deck, but it’s awesome that we’re getting flexible options we can tailor builds with.

Canopy Lands & Talismans: These are just fantastic. I think there should be a little reservation about the life payment on the Canopies in a heavily life-oriented deck.

Mox Tantalite: Just not good enough. Terrible topdeck. Compares unfavorably to Search for Tomorrow (which already sees no play).

Yawgmoth: Probably not strong enough as a commander to sit with the big dogs. NASTY in Hapatra’s 99.

Plague Engineer: Very narrow. As a stretch, it could name Elf or Human in an extremely inbred meta.

Yuriko: Yuriko got some NICE buffs that give her a lot of extra reach. Changeling Outcast, Faerie Seer, Ingenious Infiltrator, Mist-Syndicate Naga, Fallen Shinobi

Echo of Eons: There’s a lot of hype about this card, but I feel strongly that this card isn’t good enough for full power cEDH, and it’s not an optimal budget substitution. Wheels either need to be played early (you can’t), have mana left over (you won’t), or be played into a payoff (too big of a mana barrier). If your plan A is attempting to Entomb it or loot it away, that’s too clunky of a plan. There are much better cards to do Timetwister-style loops with such as Memory’s Journey or Time Spiral + Narset’s Reversal.

Spice without an obvious home: Hogaak (in the 98/99), Cabal Therapist, Rain of Revelation, Archmage’s Charm

Red & White Forces: Come on. 🙁

——

Food Chain Sliver

Pretty massive upgrade to the deck. Added a land, as games are going a little later. I don’t think we want Canopy lands here, as with all the life we pay it’s going to be a net loss to cards seen to pay life each turn. I’ll test them and add them to the stock online list if they stay. I’m keeping Vexing Shusher from the Niv build — it’s a house.

• Add: The First Sliver, LabJace, Timetwister (budget: Goblin Bombardment), Riftsweeper, Extract, Morphic Pool
• Cut: Niv-Mizzet Reborn, Sparkcaster, Hydroid Krasis, Circu, Fire Covenant, Sterling Grove
• Considered: Force of Negation, Nurturing Peatland, Waterlogged Grove

Yisan

Collector Ouphe is a fantastic addition. Force of Vigor also has a lot of potential. Ravenous Slime really wasn’t pulling its weight, and I’d been eyeing Azusa for cuts for a while.

• Add: Collector Ouphe, Force of Vigor, Prismatic Vista
• Cut: Ravenous Slime, Azusa, Snow-Covered Forest
• Considered: Savage Swipe

Paradox Scepter Thrasios

Consultation Edition

Talisman is a little stronger in the early game than Signet, and Signet is better on Engine lines; both are nearly equivalent in power. Canopy lands are good here, we ramp a lot (meaning we can avoid tapping it in a lot of scenarios) and don’t mind going late (so turning our lands into gas later is decent). Thrasios mirrors especially tend to be fairly standoffish and go late — we’d rather have advantage from Rhystic Study than watch our Spell Pierce scale off.

• Add: Talisman of Curiosity, Nurturing Peatland, Waterlogged Grove, Rhystic Study
• Cut: Simic Signet, Gemstone Mine, Yavimaya Coast, Spell Pierce
• Considered: Force of Negation, Tribute Mage

Opus Thief

Turns out LabJace is the truth. Narset’s Reversal is a little reactive for what we’re trying to accomplish here. Talisman is an upgrade to Signet.

• Add: Talisman of Creativity, Fiery Islet, LabJace
• Cut: Azorius Signet, Urborg, Narset’s Reversal
• Considered: Force of Negation

Razakats

• Add: Nurturing Peatland
• Cut: Scrubland
• Considered: Force of Vigor

Animar

Cutting RG lands for UR and UG Canopies!

• Add: Waterlogged Grove, Fiery Islet
• Cut: Grove of the Burnwillows, Spire Garden
• Considered: Pondering Mage (jk never lucky)

Urza

Newly added to my roster! 🙂

Playing Time Spiral over Sleight of Hand and doing my darndest to figure out how to cut Voltaic Key.

• Add: Force of Negation, Prismatic Vista
• Considered: Mirrodin Beseiged, Tribute Mage

Jace, Vryn’s Prodigy

My JVP list is morphing into Urza for the time being. I can only be without High Tide for so long, so we’ll see shortly.

• Add: Force of Negation, Prismatic Vista
• Cut: Serum Visions, Snow-Covered Island
• Considered: Echo of Eons (we actually can loot it here! I still ultimately think it’s too clunky)

—–

Much love!

– Shaper